I had three "test" games tonight of my 1000pt list.
Game 1: Kill Points, Dawn of War vs Nids. This was barely even a contest. I got smashed pretty heartily from the get go, showing my complete inexperience with Marines. I got too close, too fast and didn't really use my shooting nearly effectively enough. I conceded around turn 4.
Game 2: Kill Points, Spearhead vs Orks. A draw. I actually thought I lost but killed enough characters and vehicles to get the draw. I only had 7 KP on the table total. Again, marines cannot last in assaults. They are a short range fire fight army. It really sucks that to get into rapid fire range they are getting assaulted the next turn though, especially when nearly every other army is better at assault.
Game 3: Kill Points, Pitched Battle (yes these were all random) vs Dark Eldar. A win, finally. Though, in the end I barely had anything left on the table myself. 4 Wyches decimated nearly two complete tactical squads in subsequent assaults. My scouts died to warriors after assaulting them. My scouts did the assaulting and bounced right off, even with a shooting phase before hand! The same warrior squad tied down my third tactical squad nearly all game.
So what did I learn? Marines are really frustrating. You cannot quit. You have to just hunker down and keep playing. Any changes?
The league DOES have a sideboard allowance. I am thinking a Thunderfire Cannon might be a good sideboard to replace the predator. Woulda helped against both the nids and orks greatly. Perhaps a dev squad sideboard in lieu of a tactical squad? *shrugs*.
I spent time and money already on these dudes. I'd hate to give up on them. Any tips from other marine players out there? My list is only a few posts down to check out!
(FFS, just typed this whole thing and managed to get it deleted, ah well, here goes again: )
ReplyDeleteMarines arent necessarily a short-range shooting army. They can do anything pretty well, just gotta be careful when the opposing army can do one of those things better (assault usually). If they beat your ass in close combat, stay out of it ;-)
If you want long range shooting, look at Typhoon Land Speeders, Whirlwinds, Autolas Predators, any missile launcher variant, or Rifleman Dreads (2x twin-linked autocannons).
If you need to mow down hordes, again missile launchers get the job done fairly decently, as do Whirlwinds, but the real king here is the Vindicator. A pair of those will really ruin anyone's day, if used properly. Why a pair you ask? Because the opponent will do everything they can to kill em, but 2 of em are hard to kill before they take some chunks out of the opposing army.
Also, Thunderfire Cannon is a no-no, Ive never seen anyone use them, and by looking at what they bring, you can get more use from other options.
Like I said, Marines can do everything pretty well, but they don't cope well with losses, so your first goal on the table should be to minimize those. Then focus on the most effective way to kill your current enemy. So shoot those Tyranids while staying as far away from them as possible ;-) I'll go check out your list now and comment on that if I come up with anything else to say :)
It seems like at 1k you really gotta focus on one aspect of their game. I went with short range shooting more or less. I also, as a caveat, went against meta a bit by trying to avoid a parking lot. Still, some rethinking might need to be done.
ReplyDeleteMy advice would be sort of the opposite. Less fancy stuff, MOAR MAREENZ!
ReplyDeleteWay back in 3rd ed, when I was actively playing Marines, I went tactical heavy (in Rhinos... I was Mech before Mech was cool). 4 full tactical squads, a Librarian, a Predator, a Dreadnought, and a Vindicator. EVERYONE underestimated that list, and it gave me a lot of success.
I know you like Scouts and the Storm speeder, but concentrate on the basics. Walk before you fly.
Scouts have too specialized of a role in a Marine list. Of course that's just my opinion.
I'm obviously quite cynical, even the more I think about it. My tactical squads seemed useless against pretty much anything. I can COMPLETELY see why people play the newer marine books now.
ReplyDeleteHopefully I can figure something out by the 16th!
What about scouts? A full unit of 10 with a heavy bolter and camo cloaks as a faux tact squad?
ReplyDelete